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JKr
February 29, 2012, 13:22:39
I got my DBK618 a couple of weeks ago. I seem unable to get 60 fps without having some nasty gridlines showing up. The following test images (except Mars) where made by stacking 300 frames in Registax (single alignment box) and applying identical, medium strength sharpening. I have tried various debayering methods; several algorithms implemented in Firecapture, and debayering on the fly in IC Capture. I have the latest drivers and IC Capture.

Is there a problem with my camera?

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/8490/dbk618debayertests.jpg

jmackastro
March 1, 2012, 19:29:33
I got my DBK618 a couple of weeks ago. I seem unable to get 60 fps without having some nasty gridlines showing up. The following test images (except Mars) where made by stacking 300 frames in Registax (single alignment box) and applying identical, medium strength sharpening. I have tried various debayering methods; several algorithms implemented in Firecapture, and debayering on the fly in IC Capture. I have the latest drivers and IC Capture.

Is there a problem with my camera?

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/8490/dbk618debayertests.jpg

Yep , same here.
On lunar images I can see faint horizontal lines after stacking and processing in Registax.
Had the previous DBK camera no problems with lines on images.
Will invesigated further to see if the problem is related to frame rates.

John

Tim Cassens
March 2, 2012, 10:22:48
I got my DBK618 a couple of weeks ago. I seem unable to get 60 fps without having some nasty gridlines showing up. The following test images (except Mars) where made by stacking 300 frames in Registax (single alignment box) and applying identical, medium strength sharpening. I have tried various debayering methods; several algorithms implemented in Firecapture, and debayering on the fly in IC Capture. I have the latest drivers and IC Capture.

Is there a problem with my camera?

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/8490/dbk618debayertests.jpg

Can you provide with some more sample images?

I would like to see the result of the stacking (the raw data) and the result of the debayering (not resized, not sharpened and not in a jpeg).

What are your camera settings while you record the images, especially white balance?

Best regards
Tim Cassens

jmackastro
March 2, 2012, 10:26:05
OK , I checked a vid I did a day or so ago.
The video was taken at 60fps. The camera is only a couple of weeks old so I have the latest software etc.
I have the previous DBK camera and used the same computer , settings , Y800 etc. The previous camera showed no
grid lines but the new DBK does. An image I took of Jupiter at 30fps does not show the grid lines.
Image attached.

John

1449

JKr
March 2, 2012, 11:48:18
Can you provide with some more sample images?

I would like to see the result of the stacking (the raw data) and the result of the debayering (not resized, not sharpened and not in a jpeg).

What are your camera settings while you record the images, especially white balance?

Best regards
Tim Cassens

Camera settings: 60 fps; manual white balance, exposure time 1/76 sec for Mars, 1/60 for the indoor test images. Gamma 100; gain near maximum; brightness, saturation and hue left at default.
Here is raw video (Y800, 60 fps) if anyone wants to try their own debayering:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11507670/y80060fps0018.zip

Unprocessed stack from Y800 capture with debayering done in IC Capture: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11507670/Y80060fps_ICDeBayer_edge.tif

Unprocessed stack from Y800 capture debayered in Firecapture: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11507670/y80060fps_Firecapture-Debayer_Edge.tif

jmackastro
March 3, 2012, 18:47:47
Did a comparison between 60fps and 30 fps.
DBK618 , Wndows 7 machine , Intel i5 dual core , 4 gb mem , 300 gb HD.

1.Moon 60fps , gain - lowest setting 260?? , gamma 39 , WB blue = 44 , WB red = 20 , 1/109 exp , 1000 frames , used 500

Processed in Registax , slight wavelets just so the image was clearer , settings noted and used for 30fps

2. Moon 30fps , same setting used as above

processed Registax , same values for wavelets.


Tried to upload png images but failed - we cannot up load images >100kb

Grids present at 60fps and 30 fps



John

Tim Cassens
March 5, 2012, 11:44:10
Thank you for the test images. We are investigating the issue.

Please note that in this case jpeg compression destroys all the details we are looking for. Please only use lossless compression when uploading images demonstrating the problem.

JKr
March 5, 2012, 12:11:35
Thank you for the test images. We are investigating the issue.

Please note that in this case jpeg compression destroys all the details we are looking for. Please only use lossless compression when uploading images demonstrating the problem.

Thank you, good to know it is being looked into. I tried also with a shorter USB-cable, and I uninstalled and reinstalled the latest driver, but no change.
Jon

asimov
March 5, 2012, 15:11:51
I get them too at this framerate..

JKr
March 21, 2012, 17:36:38
Thank you for the test images. We are investigating the issue.
....

Any progress? Is it still being investigated?

Stefan Geissler
March 22, 2012, 09:28:26
Yes, we still investigate, in parallel to the other projects. Therefore, this takes some time. I am very sorry for this.

xalkered
March 25, 2012, 16:38:07
Yes, we still investigate, in parallel to the other projects. Therefore, this takes some time. I am very sorry for this.

Just noticed the same gridlines on my mono 618 when capturing solar images. Glad it's not a camera fault and is under investigation.
Best regards
Derek

Stefan Geissler
March 26, 2012, 09:30:11
Hello,

can you please post an image as BMP file captured by your mono camera showing this?

Stefan Geissler
March 29, 2012, 10:26:52
Just noticed the same gridlines on my mono 618 when capturing solar images. Glad it's not a camera fault and is under investigation.

Please send an image. Because this issue should not happen with a mono camera. Maybe it is an interference with an H-Alpha filter?

xalkered
April 1, 2012, 17:21:18
Hi Stefan
Sorry for the delay answering I've been away for a week, anyway problem solved, I'd cleaned my ccd glass and left parallel line smears top and bottom, this was then magnified using 2x barlow and became visible when capturing prominences. Recleaned glass and problem solved.
Best regards
Derek

jmackastro
April 2, 2012, 20:43:08
Hi,

Uncompressed image at 60fps with DBK618

http://astrob.in/8442

John

Kevin Kilburn
April 8, 2012, 15:44:07
I am also getting grid lines with my DBK618 and Baader IR/UV filter at 30fps. Is this a driver software problem? Seems to be worse when the gamma is set low. Gain set at about half way on slider and exposure adjusted.

I am still dissatisfied with the white balance (red 18, blue 58 ). I bought the camera specifically to investigate lunar surface colour but can get far better results with a Philips SPC900NC webcam. What is the optimum white balance for lunar colour imaging?

Stefan Geissler
April 10, 2012, 10:32:51
Hi,


I am also getting grid lines with my DBK618 and Baader IR/UV filter at 30fps. Is this a driver software problem? Seems to be worse when the gamma is set low. Gain set at about half way on slider and exposure adjusted.


We still working on this, but it is not as easy to find out the best fitting register setting.


I am still dissatisfied with the white balance (red 18, blue 58 ). I bought the camera specifically to investigate lunar surface colour but can get far better results with a Philips SPC900NC webcam. What is the optimum white balance for lunar colour imaging?

Hopefully, you did not use the white balance automatic. I do not think, the automatic will give good results in space. I suggest to use disable the white balance automatic and set the default values of 64.

Stefan Geissler
April 10, 2012, 10:33:29
Hi,


I am also getting grid lines with my DBK618 and Baader IR/UV filter at 30fps. Is this a driver software problem? Seems to be worse when the gamma is set low. Gain set at about half way on slider and exposure adjusted.


We still working on this, but it is not as easy to find out the best fitting register setting.


I am still dissatisfied with the white balance (red 18, blue 58 ). I bought the camera specifically to investigate lunar surface colour but can get far better results with a Philips SPC900NC webcam. What is the optimum white balance for lunar colour imaging?

Hopefully, you did not use the white balance automatic. I do not think, the automatic will give good results in space. I suggest to use disable the white balance automatic and set the default values of 64.

Stefan Geissler
April 13, 2012, 17:20:01
Hello,

We changed the firmware of the DFK 21AU04.AS and DBK21AU04.AS, so the grid pattern is away. The firmware can be uploaded by software into the camera. Please keep in mind, there is a very small risk, that the firmware update can make the camera unusable. Therefore, I send this firmware update only on demand. Please create a small support case at http://www.theimagingsourceforums.com/faq.php

I will handle this next Monday, because I am not in the office over the weekend.

JKr
April 17, 2012, 22:11:03
I get "Firmware upgrade failed" every time....
I have Win7 Professional.

I just noticed you wrote "... the firmware of the DFK 21AU04.AS and DBK21AU04.AS". Those are in fact completely different models to mine (which is DBK 21AU618.AS). I hope this is just a typo.

Stefan Geissler
April 18, 2012, 09:09:08
Hello Jkr,

I would like to know, who gave you a firmware update. Please keep in mind, in case you emailed with me, I do not know, I am not able to guess "Jkr" is. Therefore, I do not know, what you got.

And you are right, "DFK 21AU04.AS and DBK21AU04.AS" is wrong, it is a copy and paste error. Correct is "DFK 21AU618.AS and DBK21AU518.AS"

JKr
April 18, 2012, 09:36:58
It was you it seems; case:244894

asimov
April 20, 2012, 06:07:36
I would like to try this 'fix' Stefan however I will be needing verification from other owner/users that it did not make their camera's unusable. I'll wait until I read that other users have had success in installing the upgraded firmware. PLEASE report on this anyone!

Thanks.


Hello,

We changed the firmware of the DFK 21AU04.AS and DBK21AU04.AS, so the grid pattern is away. The firmware can be uploaded by software into the camera. Please keep in mind, there is a very small risk, that the firmware update can make the camera unusable. Therefore, I send this firmware update only on demand. Please create a small support case at http://www.theimagingsourceforums.com/faq.php

I will handle this next Monday, because I am not in the office over the weekend.

JKr
April 20, 2012, 13:20:26
Hello Asimov!
I tried the new firmware. At 60 fps the grid pattern was somewhat reduced, but at 30 fps it was worse than before, with also some vertical lines, particularly in the blue channel. The good news is I could easily return to the old firmware, and Stefan told me they continue to work on a fix.
Jon

dcristi
April 20, 2012, 16:21:26
Hi Asimov,

I can confirm that the camera is still working and the grid is no more present at 60fps.
Also I found the vertical lines at 30fps.

Cristi

Stefan Geissler
April 20, 2012, 17:24:09
Hello

I confirm the vertical lines at 30 fps. I can not see it under same conditions at 60 fps.

Thus I would like to know your opinion regarding 30 fps: Go back to the old settings of 30 fps, where the grid was visible faintly too, but no vertical line at high gain or using the new settings. Jon already discussed this topic with me.

asimov
April 23, 2012, 17:58:31
Thanks for the verification guys. Actually I think I have solved most of my problems by using Autostakkert to Debayer the Y800 data with. It uses a different algorithm than usual. Hasn't killed the grid pattern totally but it is less noticeable & with careful de-noising, can be effectively eliminated.

Attached is Saturn @ 30FPS and Mars @ 60FPS.

14841485

mikek314
May 26, 2012, 22:35:33
I recently received a DBK 21AU618.AS and I am seeing the same grid pattern issue. I agree with the previous poster that the problem can be reduced by certain processing choices, but this should not be necessary - a fix is needed. It is not clear from this thread what is happening. If a fix is still being worked on then I can wait patiently, but it would be nice to know what the current status is. I just joined the forum so I apologize if this info is already given somewhere. Thanks.

Stefan Geissler
May 29, 2012, 12:41:12
Hi

After I asked for the opinion of the posters in the thread, I got no answer, therefore, I did not react.However, if you want a changed firmware, please create a support case at http://www.imagingcontrol.com/support/case/

gary1968
May 29, 2012, 19:02:23
I have an issue with my new DFK21AU618.AS..... I can clearly see 2 vertical line just right of center if I have the gain quite high..... These lines only appear if the camera is set at 30fps, all other frame rates do not show this.
Would the upgrade firmware resolve this issue?

Gary

Stefan Geissler
May 30, 2012, 09:51:47
Hi Gary

I would we interesting to know, whether other users have them too.

gary1968
May 30, 2012, 11:32:25
Hi Gary

I would we interesting to know, whether other users have them too.

Hi Stefan,

I can post an image of the lines tonight, if that helps.
But, on reading through this thread, if I understand correctly, the issue I have with the 2 vertical lines has been caused by the 'fix' for the original grid line problem as others have mentioned them.
I know personally of one other camera showing these lines, it was discussed on another forum.

Gary

Stefan Geissler
May 30, 2012, 12:34:02
Gary,

please post the image.

The fix for the gridlines has not been published, since no one asked me to provide it, after I posted, that it is available. Therefore, I have no feedback.

I provide it after I got a support request at http://www.imagingcontrol.com/support/case/

gary1968
May 31, 2012, 23:52:20
Hi Stefan,

Sorry its taken a little while to get back to you. Please see the following link to the AVI I captured. This was taken with no optics on the camera, the camera was capped.
For image below the gain was set to maximum, gamma was around 400, exposure 1/3333sec & 30FPS. All other FPS settings do not show this fault.
If you look at the image there are 2 prominent vertical lines just right of center, with a much fainter grid pattern showing as well. If I am looking at the 'Live View' in IC Capture and I click the rotate button the lines also move.
Unfortunately I am unable to test the camera on a scope just now as it is too light here until Autumn.

I look forward to your reply,
Gary Anderson

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7226/7310729650_21fafedd2b_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gary1968/7310729650/)
grid (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gary1968/7310729650/) by gary anderson1968 (http://www.flickr.com/people/gary1968/), on Flickr

Stefan Geissler
June 1, 2012, 09:53:35
Dear Gary,

I suppose I know this photo. You have sent the same showing Saturn, right?

I just checked on my own. The lines are visible at 30 fps. Not at 15 and not at 60. They are there, even if Gamma is reduced, but the images are stacked.

Only solution right now is not using 30 fps.

I checked an older firmware too and found, that the lines are not there at 30 fps.

Stefan Geissler
June 1, 2012, 12:05:22
Dear Gary,

I spoke with the engineers about this issue. They told me, the camera was optimized for 60 fps to avoid the grid pattern which is the theme of this thread. The pattern was removed with firmware 1028, but unfortunately the change has a side effect on the 30 fps. If you need 30 fps and not 60 fps, I can provide you with the 1021 firmware. In this case, you may receive the grid mentioned in this thread at 60 fps.

gary1968
June 1, 2012, 21:14:06
Hi Stefan,

Thanks for getting back to me. No, I have only just bought this camera and I have never imaged anything with it yet, I noticed the problem while I was setting the camera and software up.
I will stay with the current firmware, 1028. That is until I can test the camera further.
Can you tell me if TIS are still working on a fix for this problem, or is it the best it can be??
I look forward to your reply.

Regards,
Gary

Stefan Geissler
June 4, 2012, 14:41:42
Gary

Well, we are working not directly this issue, because we are in a either version 1021 or version 1028 situation. I am very sorry for this.

merce
June 4, 2012, 19:44:55
Hi all, I'm from Barcelona, ​​Spain and regret having to use the translator. Three weeks ago I bought a DBK21au618 and was surprised the grid that appears in photographs. I thought it was due to incorrect parameters and started to take screenshots with different parameters and compare the results to see if I could find the problem. I finally found all this information you are giving and I keep very closely to see if there is solution. I arrived at 60, 30 and 15frs invariably with Y800, with Debayer, and also with YUY2 / RGB24 that successfully used with DBK 21AUAS. Is it possible to find a firmware that runs at 60.30 and 15frs? . I hope I have understood that the solution has been only 60fr
I'm getting pictures processed through acceptable but hope I'm not losing information and does not take full advantage of the camera .......

Greetings and I hope if they find the solution

gary1968
June 4, 2012, 23:14:50
Hi Stefan,

As my camera is new and is obviously running the 1028 firmware I 'might' like to change it in the future to run the older 1021 firmware..... How do I go about getting the 1021 firmware and how do I install it? Are there any risks in me updating the firmware myself?
My laptop is a I3 Quad Core running Win 7 Premium, if that makes any difference to how I install the firmware.

I look forward to your reply,
Gary

Stefan Geissler
June 5, 2012, 10:48:05
Gary,

please contact me under http://www.imagingcontrol.com/support/case/

frankastro
September 9, 2012, 20:48:52
Hello,
I've bought the DBK21A618 and I tested it this night. I have too this grid.
1511
I use Y800 and Firecapture (Debayer HQlinear GB). At this date, have you a solution ?
Thank you.
(Sorry for my english)

Stefan Geissler
September 12, 2012, 09:25:36
I am very sorry, but I can not see the grid on the image. Maybe it has been removed by JPEG compression. Please let me know the serial number of the camera.

Rapaz
September 22, 2012, 21:16:10
Hello everyone:
I have recently purchased a new DBK21AU618, and having read this thread, I decided to make some "experiments", and I have discovered the following:

First: If I make the capture at 60 fps, and I debayer, using the DEBAYER UTILITY of Firecapture, in "BILINEAL" mode, the final picture is perfect, but If I choose the "NEAREST NEIGHBOUR", THE GRID PROBLEM IS THERE.

Important: Registax uses THE "NEAREST NEIGHBOUR" MODE TO DEBAYER, so that´s the problem. The problem must be a compatibility problem between DBK21AU618 and the "NEAREST NEIGHBOUR" mode, so the solution is using "Bilineal" mode".


Second: If I make the capture at 30 or 15 fps in YUY2, there is no grid lines patern.

I hope this helps

Greetings from Rapaz-Pedro (Spain)

Rapaz
September 22, 2012, 21:26:35
Hello everyone:
A few days ago, I have purchased a new DBK21AU168, and having read this thread, I decided to make some "experiments", and fortunately, I have discovered, that is possible to make captures at 60 fps, with no traces of the grid lines problem, if you debayer using (for example) The Firecapture utility "debayer", IN "BILINEAL" mode. If I try and do it in the "NEAREST NEIGHBOUR" MODE, the problem of the grid lines appears. This is important, because REGISTAX USES THIS METHOD, and I gess the problem is just a compatiblity problem between the camera and the "NEAREST NEIGHBOUR" mode of bebayering.
If I make the capture at 30 or 15 fps, in YUY2, there is no grid patern, and the picture is perfect, too.

Rapaz
September 25, 2012, 18:00:44
Hello, again:
Here I upload, three examples of pictures, taken with my new DBK21AU618; one in Y800-30 FPS bilinear debayering, another one in y800 6O FPS and bilinear debayering and the other one in YUY2-30 FPS.
I have only used Registax 6 for the processing, and no PS, nor Astra Image, have been used.

Please tell me if you find traces of the grid lines pattern.

Greetings from Pedro-Rapaz (Spain)

Rapaz
September 25, 2012, 18:04:52
Sorry; I forgot the pictures.

Here they come.

151415151516

Rapaz
September 25, 2012, 18:30:25
Sorry once again, as I was finding problems, in order to upload the files; I think this time is correct.
The only picture, where I can see some grid pattern, is the one in Y800 mode and 30 fps, on the right, but after aplying CONCONVULTION FILTER IN ASTRA IMAGE, the problem seems to be solved.

Greetings from Rapaz-Pedro (Spain), and I wait for your opinions.

Stefan Geissler
September 26, 2012, 09:40:10
Hi

Unfortunately the JPEG compression removes the bayer pattern.

Rapaz
September 26, 2012, 10:36:36
Hi

Unfortunately the JPEG compression removes the bayer pattern.

Yes Stefan, but the original ones are in TIFF format, but they look similar.

Isn´t it possible to post the pictures in a non compressed format?

Rapaz
September 26, 2012, 10:53:54
The pictures are in PNG format, but when I try and send them, they are converted into JPEG.

Rapaz
September 26, 2012, 18:00:29
GOOD NEWS!!!
I have beeing debayering and staking with the new software "AUTOSTAKKERT:-) 2", and the final pictures are perfect in any mode; no grid lines and no vertical lines at all. So, I gess it´s not a camera problem, but a software compatibility. The camera runs perfect, at least for me.

Greetings from Pedro-Rapaz (Spain).

TeroP
November 7, 2012, 15:41:23
I noticed my DBK 21AU618.AS also has this kind of an artefact when running the camera on 30fps. Like with others, the "line" is not seen under any other framerates. Is there a new firmware available that does not contain either of the bugs mentioned in this thread with 1021 and 1028 firmwares?



http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7226/7310729650_21fafedd2b_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gary1968/7310729650/)
grid (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gary1968/7310729650/) by gary anderson1968 (http://www.flickr.com/people/gary1968/), on Flickr

Stefan Geissler
November 7, 2012, 16:13:07
Hi.

I am very sorry, but there is no firmware available, that fixes both issues in one version.